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Wherein we apply the confluence of Holy and Fuck.

(From Queen of Wands. Click on the thumbnail for full sized Oh He Did Not Just Say That.)

I've said positive things about Aeire's characterization before. And here's a good example of why. First though, let me say some good things about the art in the strip. Even stepping away from the Lightning Path and all the text, the art is first rate today -- lots of crowding and shadows and blurs for Kestrel in the distance. It all works really well. That's all first.

Now. Let's look at Seamus, walking across the room to talk to Kestrel. And what he says.

Holy fuck. He did not just say that.

Here's the thing. I don't buy it.

Oh, I think Angela does love Kestrel. She might even Capital-L Love Kestrel. But if so, she loves Kestrel the way that Heinlein was talking about when he said that "Love is the condition when another person's happiness is critical to your own." Angela wrestled with Kestrel going away, but came to terms.

Clearly, Angela wasn't thinking about this when she warned Seamus off. She clearly thought he was talking about his own feelings. To the point that she shut down anything about her needing to talk to Kestrel. And she told Seamus to not weigh anything more on Kestrel. But of course he did.

I think Seamus was jealous of Angela, ultimately. Jealous of her friendship and maybe her feelings for Kestrel. He couldn't handle that, ultimately. Which fits his personality, even though we've mostly seen him as a nice enough guy. He let his ex-girlfriend Elaine dictate his life -- dropping Kestrel like a stone when she came back to him -- and clearly sees love as a singular thing. You're with someone or you're not, and there's no room in your heart for anyone else.

Angela isn't like that. She's said so herself. Her relationship with Brad was open, and she was cool with it. She's happy enough to be happy, if the people around her are too. And I think that freaked Seamus. I think he couldn't quite handle not being the most important thing in Angela's life, because that's the only way he knows how to love.

And now he's thrown a grenade into Kestrel's brain. If this were Something Positive, I'd expect Angela to break every bone in his body and leave him a bloody smear on the wall. As it is, I think that yes, Angela and Kestrel will have to confront their own relationship and their own feelings and maybe even their own desires... but that in the end, Seamus is talking out his ass because he's selfish.

That's my theory. It may be wrong, but by God I'm sticking with it.

And Aeire? Gets a biscuit. A tasty, tasty biscuit.

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Comments

NASA called earlier. They were complaining because my socks went into orbit and almost knocked a communications satellite OUT of orbit. Damn but when that girl (Aeire) knocks me for a loop, she does it in STYLE!

I think you're right. However, I do think there's more to it than just that. I think that Seamus broke up with Angela because he sensed that he'd never be anything more than a boyfriend... and he wanted something more.

Angela does love Kestrel. And she reacted VERY strongly to Kestrel leaving. Maybe... just maybe... while Seamus may be blowing smoke because of jealousy and too much booze... that he's also touched on something true here.

I don't think QoW is going to end with Kestrel moving out to Boston. Instead... she's seen how much she's still needed by her friends... and now this with Angela? If she did approach Angela and find out that this tiny lady did in fact still hold feelings for Kestrel... it might be the straw that broke the camel's back... and kept Kestrel here.

And I'd be most amused to see that if it's true!

Robert A. Howard

Seamus is half right and half way the hell out there.

You're right -- Angela loves Kestrel, but I don't think it's quite the sort of love Seamus is mistaking it to be. I think Angela would very much appreciate Kestrel paying closer attention to her, and would even be happy in a romantic relationship with her, but I don't think the romantic relationship is what she's "waiting" for, as Seamus seems to think.

She loves Kestrel, and Kestrel loves her, but I honestly think the relationship is a little unbalanced. Angela is seeking to go deeper in that relationship (... and deeper does not have to mean moving onto romance), but Kestrel is still seeking out where she belongs in this world, and her relationships are going to be a _little_ (that's not sarcasm; I really mean only a little) limited because of that, so she can't give Angela quite the attention Angela is seeking.

Seamus isn't that close to either of the two, from what I see. He's still got feelings for Kestrel, and he sees that Angela has feelings for Kestrel, which he somewhat misunderstands, but they're there nonetheless -- and from his perspective, that's a perfectly good reason to call it off with Angela and set the two up so they can be the happier. He's sort of misunderstood the situation, but he's still got the best of intentions. So he jumped to conclusions a bit, but I don't think he's selfish -- rather the opposite.

Sort of like the little kid who breaks the good china or even burns the kitchen down trying to make breakfast in bed for Mommy and Daddy. He knows what results he wants, but he isn't capable of entirely understanding what all he's doing, so something's going to get screwed up in the process.

But... I seem to recall Angela kissing Kestrel once. Or did I dream it?

No, it wasn't a dream...
http://www.queenofwands.net/d/20040109.html
That's the one I've found so far. I think there was another as well.

Yeah, Seamus is not a nice enough guy. Seamus is the sort of guy who gives nice guys a bad name. Seamus seems very nice, but is in fact simply too wimpy to own up to what he obviously knows is going on, except when he's drunk. He likes to coast along without doing anything difficult, and as a result makes everyone else make the hard choices around him. Men like him are frustrating to be around for anyone not directly connected to them, and sheer hell on anyone they date.

For Seamus to be "nice enough", and still allow chips to fall as they have, he'd have to be oblivious to the point of mental disability. I didn't buy that before, but this comic blew that theory out of the water.

What we may well be seeing here is Seamus doing his first truly nice thing, if such a word can apply. He seems to have made the decision to split with Angela based on what he thinks is best for her, and not for him, and he's making sure that she at least gets a shot at what she wants before it disappears. That's my hope, because I find myself caring enough about these characters that I don't want to see someone sabotaging things for Kestrel and Angela; I doubt they'll end up "together", per se, but some resolution would be good for the soul.

Oh, Seamus is a prick. I would not be surprised if this is simply the excuse he's rationalized to date someone else.

I think there's more to it than that. Seamus' subconcious mind may have come up with the following equation:

Girl who was attracted to me at some point + Girl who is dating me and is attracted to other girl = THREESOME!

Heh, started a thread about this strip on the Sam and Fuzzy forums before I saw this. I didn't word it quite as eloquently as Eric did though.

http://www.samandfuzzy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=939

Yanno, all other things aside, that's got to be the most unusual euphemism for pondering other sexual lifestyles that I have ever heard.

I'm not going to be able to go near a mall without giggling uncontrollably for a good few months now.

Now this is why Websnark is on my daily trawl. Not only do you, Eric Burns, pick up on levels of meaning I entirely miss, but the people who comment on your posts are also incredibly perspicacious.

Yeah, I agree. Seamus is really confused. I don't think he understands that Angela is poly, and I don't know if he'd understand it if she explained. And, in his ignorance, he is causing S*P levels of chaos.

And it's Friday, and the next strip won't be until Monday.

Yeah, Seamus is an ass. Come on -- he stood up Kestrel on their first date so he could goink his off-and-on girlfriend, who apparently yanks him around constantly without either party considering the feelings of anyone who gets hurt in the process. Then, the minute he broke up with the girlfriend (like that's gonna last), he asked Kestrel, who clearly digs him, to hook him up with her cute friend. That's Page One of the Obnoxious Dating Move Handbook. And now he gets drunk and blurts out indelicate information. Worst of all, he obviously thinks of himself as some kind of wounded romantic hero. This is not a nice guy. Not even a nice-enough guy.

I also thought Angela was perfectly assholish for deciding to date Seamus in the first place. She knows Kestrel has a history with him and is still hung up on him, and she doesn't have any particular feelings for Seamus herself. Would it have been so hard for Kestrel to have ONE friend who says, "Gee, Kestrel, maybe I *don't* want to date one of your spineless, emotionally manipulative ex-boyfriends. Maybe that would make things really weird and uncomfortable."

These characters drive me nuts. In the words of Lou Reed, they're still doing things that I gave up years ago, like Wicca and thinking that sleeping with all your friends is a good idea. I can see the emotional trainwrecks coming from miles away. And, of course, I can't look away. Damn if this isn't an absorbing comic.

*laughter* Look who's talking, Ms. Have-Dave-Dating-A-Computer-He-Thinks-Is-A-Person-While- Also-Having-The-Hots-For-His-Boss. ;) Teasing ya. :D Yes, these characters are rather... intriguing. And we can't look away! *grin*

BTW, why didn't you draw Mrs. Thesiger? Or is that going to be available as a print? *grin*

Robert A. Howard, aka Tangent

That's MRS. Have-Dave-Dating-A-Computer-He-Thinks-Is-A-Person-While- Also-Having-The-Hots-For-His-Boss to you.

Man, that's not what I thought "Farago" meant at all. And I thought it was weird my last name means "Small Brooks or Streams" when it sounds like it means "Careless with Matches."

And for the record, that's also why I often use the French monsieur et mademoiselle (well, their contractions) when talking about folks. It's not that there aren't assumptions built into those terms. It's that most of my readers don't know what those assumptions are, and those who do know assume I'm just a stupid American who doesn't understand when to use mlle. vs. mme.

Great. Now my roommate's all depressed. (I for one *knew* you had gotten married... don't know why I forgot to tell him that. Oh wait, it's because I'm evil. *chuckle*) Now he's muttering something about death machines and lock-on coordinates, I'll be going now...

Robert A. Howard, used as a measurement of evil among CRfH Boardies...

Sometimes it's a shame you are reluctant to Snark on something you Snarked about recently... and it's curious, as I wonder if Aeire planned out Monday's QoW ahead of time, or is reacting to your snark to explain things. I suspect the former, to be honest, it's not really Aeire's way to pander to an audience in that fashion.

*If* Seamus is telling the truth... then his breaking up with Angela makes more sense. I mean, who *would* want to date someone who constantly talks about their ex-boyfriend/girlfriend, for instance? There are quite a few people who encountered such a thing (hell, *I* encountered it and I don't date much) and it is not fun. You end up feeling like you're being measured with the ex. And for Seamus... this is a girl (Kestrel, that is) that he dated briefly, that he cares for (if only as a friend for now).

And he's drunk and Kestrel's his friend. You tend to turn to your friends when you're troubled over something... and I suspect this has been gnawing at him for a bit.

I'm not sure how he'd react if Kestrel and Angela ended up together. I don't think he'd be exactly happy about it... but I could see him acting like it's for the best or something like that.

So... is he just a jerk? Did he lie about this, about Angela and how she's been acting during this relationship? We have no real idea. We've not seen the two of them together. We've only seen brief glimpses of Angela (and briefer ones of Seamus). But she did act rather possessively in wanting to unite Kestrel's friends together in keeping Kestrel here rather than moving to Boston. And she sometimes seems not to think things through entirely.

Personally... I don't see Seamus as the type who is going to lie about this. He seems to be the type of person who lets women walk over him (he's done that how many times with his ex-wife?) and not raising a fuss... instead of a manipulative bastard who would drive a wedge between two friends for kicks. But only time will tell.

Robert A. Howard

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